Curse

Jam Jar · Feb 21, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

PvP wise,

though this is a bit redundant and overused, I'd just want to have some clarity on [[Endure Pain]. I can definately see the downsides of such a skill: instant health drop, possible death, and useless unless targets attack you, but is it possible to use EP without looking like an idiot? I was just thinking that EP could possibly be used pre-spikes to mitigate the damage somewhat. Though I can't say for certain what spike damage usually range from (lack of GvG's and HA's), is changing professions to /W and using the basic 90 health EP enough to sustain your health?

I can see problems with this. Though the opponents cannot necessarily catch on as quickly, they may be able to spike when your EP drops, and without pre-prots you might be toast. The 30 second recharge may also burden you down if the other team decides to spike again when you're unprepared.

Would the cons beat out the pros? I'm a fence-straddler on this.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Feb 21, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

There is no use for it on a warrior, going /w on it to try and mitigate 90 damage on a spike is even more retarded. Don't use it ever.

sph0nz · Feb 21, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Endure Pain has been used on mighty hammer warriors in gvg.

Jam Jar · Feb 21, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

There is no use for it on a warrior.

I'm not entirely convinced. I'm sure warriors are the least targetted, but since they're at the front lines providing the team's damage and timed spikes, they're still suspectable to armor ignoring spikes just to get rid of the pressure, especially hammer warriors with their lack of a shield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

[G]oing /w on it to try and mitigate 90 damage on a spike is even more retarded. Don't use it ever.

I admit that I do not know how much damage a spike is (due to my lack of experience in GvG and HA), but unless I know, I will not know whether or not +90 health is the brink of death or the brink of being saved from a spike. In addition, I cannot think of any alternate possibilities of shielding yourself if you're KDed or stunned in some way. I agree with you that 90 health at 7 seconds will do NOTHING to protect against pressure, let alone maxed out EP.

Snow Bunny · Feb 21, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sph0nz

Endure Pain has been used on mighty hammer warriors in gvg.

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6803

Owik Gall · Feb 21, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6803

The team build with the hammer warrior is obviously outdated because now FGJ is inconvenient on any occasion. I'm not to sure if Magehunter Smash is the same description in the page now.

EP is one of those circumstantial skills. For one occasion it will save your life, but in the other you will die quickly. It's one of those skills that demands expert usage.

Spike Stritter · Feb 22, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

one of the biggest downsides of EP that u did not mention is the waste of a skill slot, the monks should [easily] be able to counter an armor-ignoring [non armor-ignoring] spike anyhow.
if not, the problem isnt because u didnt bring EP its because ur monks fail at there job.

Jam Jar · Feb 23, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Stritter

one of the biggest downsides of EP that u did not mention is the waste of a skill slot, the monks should [easily] be able to counter an armor-ignoring [non armor-ignoring] spike anyhow.
if not, the problem isnt because u didnt bring EP its because ur monks fail at there job.

It's not magic. Monks don't just suddenly pull out a magic PS or SB at the right time and save some guy's life of a spike. Regardless, I'm not here to know how much monks fail if they can't protect you from a spike as that's hardly the point. I'm just here wondering if EP can possibly be used to mitigate spike damage enough to save yourself.

Haxor · Feb 23, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Considering the damage coming from most spikes, you'd be better off with [Disciplined [email protected]] or [Dark [email protected]] most likely. Damage mitigation > a little bit of extra health.

Dakka Dakka · Feb 23, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

hammer warrior here

I use a combo endure pain + defy pain + lions comfort + purge conditions.

its decent and when used correctly almost unkillable in one on one. The only downside is that the build is a pressure build, that means no high DPS and most likely won't kill things by itself.

My tactic though is to use it in AB and and the faction events and basically become a distraction to the opposing force, target a player and take him on one on one for a bit and let the others swarm me. I eventually die but my goal was met. Get enough people to target me instead of trying to cap shrines or attack other players

will get on tomorrow and post my exact stats and skill list

qvtkc · Feb 23, 2009, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

is it possible to use EP without looking like an idiot?

There is a long answer and a short one.

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Not really, no.

Luminarus · Feb 24, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakka Dakka

hammer warrior here

I use a combo endure pain + defy pain + lions comfort + purge conditions.

its decent and when used correctly almost unkillable in one on one. The only downside is that the build is a pressure build, that means no high DPS and most likely won't kill things by itself.

My tactic though is to use it in AB and and the faction events and basically become a distraction to the opposing force, target a player and take him on one on one for a bit and let the others swarm me. I eventually die but my goal was met. Get enough people to target me instead of trying to cap shrines or attack other players

will get on tomorrow and post my exact stats and skill list

In other words you arent doing what a warrior is supposed to do. A warrior with 4 skills devoted to survival is going to fail in any area people have brains. It limits you to 4 skills, including an IAS. Due to your build choice, you cant afford to "lose all adrenaline" from hammer bash which means that you have no guaranteed knockdown, and therefore no source of deepwound. Your "pressure" would be easily removed by simply kiting decently, and ignoring you for the mostpart.

Finally, unkillable in 1v1 doesnt mean much. Versus that build, a monkey would be unkillable. An unspeced heal sig, and kiting would keep you alive.

As to the OP's question, a warrior should be dealing damage. The only place where you could be facing a proper spike is HA or GVG (TA spikes are sorta pathetic, shove spike etc. Either the HP wont save you, or your monk would have). In pvp a typical warriors bar is 3 attacks, bulls strike, IAS, IMS, Rez and Optional. It would have to go in the optional, where there are better options such as shock, d-strike, conjure, savage slash, more damage etc.

As for on a warrior secondary, any decent spike that will kill you is going to be atleast 500 damage, more likely closer to 6 or 7. Dark Escape would take that to 250, 250 vs 90 you can do the math. Also, since most spikes invovle attackers, Disciplined Stance will reduce that damage by around 75%, and the +armor will reduce any elemental assists from the spikes. Most armor ignoring spikes have been nerfed now.

Overall, is endure pain useful in pvp: No.
Can it be used without looking like a noob: No.
Can it be used well: No.

Jam Jar · Feb 24, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

As for on a warrior secondary, any decent spike that will kill you is going to be atleast 500 damage, more likely closer to 6 or 7. Dark Escape would take that to 250, 250 vs 90 you can do the math. Also, since most spikes invovle attackers, Disciplined Stance will reduce that damage by around 75%, and the +armor will reduce any elemental assists from the spikes. Most armor ignoring spikes have been nerfed now.

Overall, is endure pain useful in pvp: No.
Can it be used without looking like a noob: No.
Can it be used well: No.

Thanks for replying. Basically, Endure Pain isn't useful because it is heavily overshadowed by other skills (I.E. [[Dark Escape]).

Luminarus · Feb 25, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

Thanks for replying. Basically, Endure Pain isn't useful because it is heavily overshadowed by other skills (I.E. [[Dark Escape]).

That and its not just useful in general tbh. A non permanent source of extra hp is bad. Its like self imposing a mini deepwound on yourself when it ends.

Spike Stritter · Feb 25, 2009, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

It's not magic. Monks don't just suddenly pull out a magic PS or SB at the right time and save some guy's life of a spike. Regardless, I'm not here to know how much monks fail if they can't protect you from a spike as that's hardly the point. I'm just here wondering if EP can possibly be used to mitigate spike damage enough to save yourself.

So, you think that you, a warrior who focus is making other enemies red bars go down, is going to be able to do your job and catch a spike on yourself with EP?
Possible: Of course
Probable: Better of with a 1/4 cast from a monk who job is to do that.

MasterSasori · Feb 25, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

At the very least EP takes up a skill slot, and that alone is enough to overlook it.

Anwyn · Feb 26, 2009, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

going to fail in any area people have brains.

Dude, he was talking about AB... Trust me, they will all group on you and hack away at you until you dead... I counted 6 guys on me once in AB running the defy/endure build...

Granted, in other areas, it will fail!

Lusciious · Feb 26, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

EP - fail .. but i've never tried [echo] + [endure pain] but thats just wasting an elite slot ..

pingu666 · Feb 26, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

hmm, what about in pve?
tried echo just now as u put that forward xD
doesnt stack, neither does signet of stamina (i mean on themselves)

echoing does give you 50~seconds or so of +272 health at 13 strength tho

id always felt endure pain was more of a pve skill tbh

Omgopolis · Feb 26, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

It's pretty useless outside of running and AB, but if you're trying to tank in AB you're better off going as a 55 monk and farming the other team. Pretty much guaranteed a win every time as long as you don't over aggro.